SADF Podcast 5 – Call for Action to Free Shariar Kabir [Full Transcript]

ISSN: 2406-5773

Today, 17.01.25, it’s been 122 days since Mr. Shahriar Kabir, a Bangladeshi secular activist, film producer, author and journalist was arrested by the current government. A number of questionable cases are filed against Mr. Kabir, including that of ‘genocide’ and ‘crimes against humanity’. Mr. Kabir was himself once a ‘Prisoner of Conscience’, who is now spending his days as a prisoner in the Kasimpur Prison at Gazipur, a city near Dhaka.

On 25 September, 2024, SADF published an open letter (https://lnkd.in/eMrXj5_5) asking the current Bangladeshi government for Mr. Kabir’s immediate release – and for nullifying all the cases against him. Mr. Kabir is also in dire need of medical care, which is continuously denied by the judicial authorities.

In our podcast and Call for Action to Free Shahriar Kabir, guests Natalia Sineaeva and Mona Haghgou Strindberg will talk about Shahriar Kabir’s present situation; both will appeal to the world community to pressure for his immediate release.

LINK TO THE NEWSLETTER:

SADF NEWSLETTER 5 – Call For Action to FREE SHAHRIAR KABIR

FULL TRANSCRIPT:

Dr. Rahyan Rashid:

Let me tell you about Shahriar Kabir. A celebrated children’s writer turned activist, a thought leader in his own right, Shahriar Kabir has spent his whole life fighting for a secular society, fighting for minority rights, demanding justice for genocide, fending against the rise of religious extremism in Bangladesh. But his ideals, his courage, his convictions, his activism are now costing him dearly. One hundred and twenty-one days ago, Shahriar Kabir was arrested on false charges under the current regime led by Dr. Yunus, the Nobel Laureate. The regime supporters and its army of propagandists would like to convince the world otherwise, but the truth is that this regime is propped up by religious extremists and military forces that find people like Shahriar Kabir and his activism incompatible with their worldview.

What is now happening to Shahriar Kabir is more than political retaliation; it’s a gross injustice. And this not just Shahriar Kabir’s fight. It’s a fight for freedom of speech, for justice, and for the kind of world we all want to live in. today we’ll dig into the story and ask what we can do to secure his release. We have with us Mrs. Natalia Sineaeva, from Never Again Association (Warsaw), and Mrs. Mona Haghgou Strindberg

Natalia is joining from Poland; she’s an educator and a human rights activist. She is with the Never Again Association, a human rights organization, and researches holocaust destruction. She’s also a fellow of European Holocaust Research Infrastructure, and of the Elie Weisel National Institute for the Study of the Holocaust. Mona is a human rights lawyer based in Sweden; she has been closely involved with Shahriar Kabir’s legal process from the very beginning.

 

What was your first reaction when you first hear about Shahriar Kabir’s situation? I’m asking this because in the eyes of the world the country of Bangladesh is now led by a Nobel Laureate. And according to parts of the international media, everything is great.

 

Mrs. Natalia Sineaeva: I’d like to give a bit of background, how I met Mr. Kabir. It was in Dhaka, many years ago, in a conference dedicated to the topic of genocide. Since then we have worked closely together, particularly around issues of genocide commemoration and human rights.

Today I’m also talking on behalf of my organization, Never Again, based in Warsaw. We’ve been active for 25 years; we’re known and active globally. Over the last years we’ve had many opportunities to meet with Mr. Kabir, in Bangladesh but also Belgium, and collaborate in various projects, including conferences, webinars and discussions about peace, human rights, violence, recognition of Bangladesh and other non-recognized genocides. We’ve worked on a project about pillars to promote peace in Bangladesh, which was presented in Geneva. Never Again also contributed to his journal, published by his organization, the Forum for Secular Bangladesh. Mr. Kabir has come to Poland to commemorate the holocaust and the WWII in Poland and Eastern Europe, in Europe. Mr. Kabir has learned about the realities and the past in our part of the world, he learned our perspectives and experiences in dealing with such events in the past. We regularly contributed to his publication with our knowledge and perspective.

Mr. Kabir is known and respected in Eastern Europe, and particularly in Poland. For example, he was the first journalist from Asia who took an interview with Lech Walesa, the first democratically elected President in Poland. He covered the democratic changes in Eastern Europe 30 years ago. He published a book about it in Bengali, he contributed to informing people about our part of the world. And for all of this we admire his deep commitment to contributing to the development also of Bangladesh as a secular, democratic and inclusive country where people of all religious backgrounds live peacefully.

My first reaction? We closely followed the political situation, the student protest, the resignation of Sheik Hasina and following violence. Actually we visited Bangladesh just a few months before the changes, and we saw the growing tensions, the growing critical mass of people but we didn’t expect the scale of violence, which was a big surprise for us. We contacted our colleagues and friends in Bangladesh, including Mr. Shahriar Kabir, who shared his interview with us about the current situation. In this interview he said that he would be the last one to leave the country. He was an uncompromised human rights defender. Very much committed to the values on which Bangladesh was founded. One month later we learned that he was arrested, we learned this from social media, and we were deeply concerned about how he was being treated because Shahriar Kabir is someone who has been outspoken for truth, for justice, for accountability, particularly regarding the genocide of 1971 but also for other genocides. He was outspoken about minority rights, about the rights of indigenous people in Bangladesh. He is someone Bangladesh should be proud of!

We were shocked by his arrest. But we know he is an uncompromised human rights defender, so we knew that something could happen, especially as he refused to leave the country.

When I learned about this I immediately wrote to the mailing list of participants of international webinars with Shahriar Kabir and with his organization asking for more information about him, about what we could do, how we could contribute. South Asia Democratic Forum prepared a letter which we all signed and distributed widely. Since September, me and my colleagues from Never Again have been contacting different organizations. I wrote to Amnesty International, to Human Rights Watch, to the Global Alliance Against Hatred and Extremism, and to many other organizations. Signataries include [several prominent individuals in the global network of human rights defense]. It was a global response.

 

The List of our signatories can be found here.

 

Dr. Rahyan Rashid: I also signed, along with other human rights activities, and that was the case. Very prominent authors also signed that letter. Yet the letter failed to receive a single line, a single word in Bangladeshi media. It was completely blacked out, no mention.

Thank you for sharing your personal experience. Shahriar did so many things, he was involved in so many activisms, it’s incredible. Thank you for sharing.

Mrs. Strindberg, weren’t you shocked that Mr. Kabir was accused of genocide and crimes against humanity?

 

Mrs. Mona Haghgou Strindberg: I couldn’t believe it. Especially when we have a government with a Nobel Prize winner! The accusations are beyond shocking, they are bizarre. We are talking about a human rights activist! Someone who devoted his life, so many years of life fighting against abuses and shedding light on genocides. We are talking about a courageous man who has courage beyond words for the fight he has devoted his life to! The fight against fundamentalism in a part of the world where that fight is crucial!

This is extremely tragic. Bangladesh should be proud of a man like Shahriar Kabir! They should honor him. Instead, we are witnessing persecution.

 

Dr. Rahyan Rashid: The world just doesn’t know about a lot that’s going on. I hope that discussion like ours today will help change that.

My next question is about the current situation. Mona, as an international Human Rights lawyer, you’ve been closely involved with Shahriar Kabir’s matter, in particular dealing with the UN Working Group’s application, the complaint. What do we know about the conditions Kabir is enduring in custody at the moment? How is his health? You have mentioned the charges of genocide and crimes against humanity; can you speak of the other charges levelled against him, and why are you calling these charges ridiculous?

 

Mrs. Mona Haghgou Strindberg: Avoiding too much detail, we could say that these charges are about murders and are just bizarre. The current state of Mr. Kabir is very alarming. Considering his age and the health complications that he already had, before detention and now prison.

The prison occurs under very terrible circumstances. Mr. Kabir was taken into custody without being told any specific things about his case or about anything, basically. We are not talking about any rule of law here. When he was placed before the court, he was attacked by the mob who tried to snatch him from the police and lynch him to death, without anyone doing anything. He was aggressed and insulted freely; it’s reported that he was punched several times. He asked for a wheelchair and the police refused to provide it. He was forced to walk all the way through the stairs; when he pleaded to the court to sit on a chair that too was denied. So it’s not just arbitrary detention, depriving him from liberty for no reason. It’s more than that, it’s submitting him to conditions that could be considered as torture.

We are working on the case and hoping for the UN Working Group on Arbitrary Detention to be successful.

 

Dr. Rahyan Rashid: So, to update. It’s been 121 days [as of 16.01.25]. He’s kept in the jail just like any other prisoner in custody. He heard he caught pneumonia once from sleeping on the floor. His previous health complications are worsening. Until last week he was denied medical treatment. One of the members of his legal team in Bangladesh noted that ‘Shahriar Kabir’s future seems lost in the judicial labyrinth of Bangladesh’. The situation is dire.

Natalia, with few exceptions, the international media is yet to catch up with what’s going on in Bangladesh. What do you know about the declining situation in Bangladesh?

 

Mrs. Natalia Sineaeva: We at Never Again are trying to follow the situation, especially since the arrest. We particularly research the treatment of minorities and indigenous people, especially now, and as we know this is probably the most challenging time in Bangladesh since 1971. Bangladesh is a diverse country with Hindu, Buddhist, Christian minorities as well as indigenous peoples, and from various sources we are receiving information about violence against minorities and desecration of temples. The information comes from personal contacts; it’s very concerning.

At the same time I see in the international media attempts to minimize or justify violence against minorities by saying that these minorities are politically involved, these are political agents involved with the Awami League so it’s not violence against minorities it’s not communal violence. [As if it would make it ok].

I’d like to say we’ve seen this strategy before. It was used to deny or distort genocides and other atrocities by vilifying the victims. We’ve had this in Eastern Europe during and after the Holocaust. When jews were killed, the perpetrators said they were killed because they supported communism, because they were Bolsheviks, so violence was justified. I see a parallel here.

I’d also like to mention that as a post-genocide country, a fragile country, addressing and working with the past atrocities in 1971 is far from over. There are still many instances of denial. Denial, distortion, minimizing different aspects of the genocide, transferring guilt to the victims. Also the voices of minorities and indigenous peoples are often overlooked in the discussions. As we know, our colleague and friend Shahriar Kabir has contributed to the process of dealing with the past. He dedicated his life to the process of dealing with the past of Bangladesh. When we speak of ‘dealing with the past’: The right to know, the right to justice, the right to reparations and guarantee of non-reoccurrence. These are the four pillars of dealing with the past, and Mr. Kabir contributed to all four. He also promoted peace, we worked together on developing proactive peace in Bangladesh.

The society is very fragile right now. It’s very polarized; the process of dealing with the past is far from over. The society is also very traumatized. Minorities feel very insecure. Some are accused of supporting the Awami League, but their insecurities go beyond that. Minorities always struggle to get jobs, to integrate. The situation right now is very challenging; we at Never Again try to follow up on the information. What we can say is that it’s unbelievable for a country led by a Nobel Prize laureate, a respected person, an authority for many … We have had the opportunity to meet Mr. Yunus in Warsaw, where he attended a Peace Summit in 2013, where he was together with the Dalai Lama, Lech Walensa, and others. He is respected, and perhaps this is the reason why many don’t want to look, to see what’s really going on in Bangladesh right now. But even Nobel Prize Laureates can make mistakes. It is a challenging task to lead a post-genocide country and which didn’t yet fully process the past. However, what is happening with Mr. Kabir is extremely disturbing and the international community must know about it.

 

Dr. Rahyan Rashid:  Yesterday (15.01.25) there was a protest in Dhaka. The words ‘indigenous populations’ have been omitted from textbooks, which led to protests from indigenous groups. They were attacked by other student groups and there were many injured.

But coming back to the point on Genocide, Mona, what does Mr. Kabir’s situation reveal about the current state of freedom of expression in Bangladesh?

 

Mrs. Mona Haghgou Strindberg: It’s beyond not well. The detention of such an individual and with such charges shows that there is no rule of law in Bangladesh to start with. This includes the right to freedom of expression, the right to freedom per se, the right to fair trial – we are talking about basic rights in a state that respects the rule of law.

 

Dr. Rahyan Rashid: It fits in a larger patterns of suppressing dissent, because freedom of expression is the queen of rights. We need freedom of expression to protect other rights.

Natalia, you’re probably aware that in September the Lemkin Institute for Genocide Prevention issued a statement and raised the genocide risk to red; according to them they were identifying some early signs of genocide developing in Bangladesh since August 5. Of course, as lawyers working with international human rights, genocide is not a word we use very lightly. And Lemkin did mention early signs. Natalia, you researched the Holocaust, which we all know didn’t start overnight. There were many signs and precursors of the Holocaust. In Bangladesh, Mr. Kabir is not the only case; there are hundreds of people treated this way. Natalia, do you see any pattern developing here?

 

Mrs. Natalia Sineaeva: I’m familiar with the statement by the Lemkin Institute and I think it was very timely and important, because Bangladesh was going through a very difficult time. What was written in the statement was that, again, Bangladesh is a post-genocide, fragile society where the process of dealing with the past was not a given. Dr. Kabir so contributed to the process of dealing with the past, was so deeply uncompromised, that this is probably why he was imprisoned.

Now I don’t know of other people detained, even though I follow the situation. But it’s logical that other people who were outspoken about the process of dealing with genocide are in similar situations. There’s a connection between now and 1971, that is clear, and this connection is very disturbing. The process of dealing with genocide, the process of reconciliation are crucial, and the voice of minorities an indigenous peoples should be included in the process. When people like Mr. Kabir are inprisoned, we don’t know how the future will turn out.

In eastern Europe, in central and eastern Europe… All the death camps were located in Poland and 90% of the Jewish population was exterminated, also Roma people and… It took many, many years for Polish people to come to terms with this, with the genocide perpetrated by the Germans but also by locals, all over eastern Europe, who cooperated. Some helped those targeted, most were indifferent, but some actively collaborated with the Nazis. This was extremely difficult to discuss in Poland, in Romania, in Moldova – situations are different, but many issues are the same. And they remain until today. People prefer of course to talk about positive aspects, say things like ‘my grandfather collaborated, he wanted to do something to help his Jewish neighbours’, which are very often distortions of what actually happened and which are very disturbing. It’s a very challenging process.

And I see that this is also the case in Bangladesh; it’s also an ongoing process; I don’t know how it will develop in the future. We should talk later about what can be done; in any case institutions such as the Lemkin Institute, Genocide Watch, and others should contribute to this and participate in the discussions. And we need people like Mr. Kabir in the process because he and his contributions are simply a pillar of the process in Bangladesh.

 

Dr. Rahyan Rashid: Thank you so much for your great answer. Mona, can you tell us a bit about the existing human rights law that relates to Shahriar Kabir’s case so that our viewers can become familiarized with the provisions?

 

Mrs. Mona Haghgou Strindberg: I would start with the UN Declaration on Human Rights. The first article says that ‘all human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.’ The persecution of Mr. Kabir is in flagrant violation of that article to start with. He is not being treated equally, he doesn’t have the right to speak, he’s deprived of the right to fair trial, and he’s deprived of his liberty on illegal grounds.

 

Dr. Rahyan Rashid:  And regarding the way he has been treated, in an undignified matter. You also mentioned that certain treatments could be interpreted as torture?

 

Mrs. Mona Haghgou Strindberg: yes, definitely. Also the lack of medical aid, the disregard for his health as we’re being informed by his legal team

 

Dr. Rahyan Rashid: My next question is on international advocacy and action. What can ordinary citizens and the global community do to demand his release?

 

Mrs. Mona Haghgou Strindberg: I would say, as my dear colleague Natalia has just mentioned, that human rights organizations have a very important role and should not be quiet. We are living in a world where there are so many issues and it’s easy to forget the tragedies. That’s also probably why Bangladesh is not mentioned in the media, so international organizations have a very important role to play. Human Rights Watch, Genocide Watch. Civil society, too, of course, as those who care for human rights and democracy have the responsibility never to forget about who we’re talking about, such a committed person who has put his life at risk. We should not accept the current situation. We do hope that Shahriar Kabir is released soon.

 

Dr. Rahyan Rashid:  Shahriar Kabir has always been vocal about other peoples’ rights. Now his own rights are being trampled. We all have a duty to fight this.

 

Mrs. Mona Haghgou StrindbergWe should also not forget that at the beginning of 2000 Mr. Kabir was a prisoner of conscience before Amnesty International. And now once again he’s being treated this way, it’s a tragedy that this happens again.

 

Dr. Rahyan Rashid: Speaking of international organizations, we discussed briefly the Lemkin Institute’s statement. The bizarre part is also that this Lemkin statement didn’t receive a single word of mention in the Bangladeshi media. However, strangely, in a very quick succession, three responses to that statement were published in three different media, all by supporters of the regime. Interestingly, in these rebuttals, Dr. Yunus’ Press secretary went to social media and started circulating the rebuttals. Natalia, you mentioned that you wrote to some human rights organizations, Amnesty and others. What were the responses? I didn’t see public responses yet.

 

Mrs. Natalia Sineaeva: Yes, we’ve been actively involved in distributing the open letter prepared by SADF. We have been in touch with different individuals and had different reactions. Some were very shocked, wondering how it’s possible, because Bangladesh is going through a process of change towards democratic reforms, and the changes should be positive. But at the same time some point that there are always mistakes in these processes.

We need a coordinated response from civil society, from different organizations. I was very impressed when I participated in the UN Forum on Minority Issues in Geneva in November there were many delegations from minorities from Bangladesh and all of them talked about minorities in Bangladesh. At the end of the Forum there was a reporter on minority rights, Nicholas Levraski, who summarized and said that we should investigate what’s happened in Bangladesh. There are many voices here.

 

Dr. Rahyan Rashid: But as regards major human rights groups, they seem to be sitting on the fence. We haven’t seen any clear statements on minority issues, Shahriar Kabir – a Prisoner of Conscience three years ago! We scan the internet, we scan their websites, and we don’t find anything. Why do you think that is?

 

Mrs. Natalia Sineaeva: I think that also people sometimes are very careful. We’ve talked about how uncompromised and outspoken Mr. Kabir is, which is why he is in prison. He speaks his mind for what he thinks is right and important and doesn’t think of the consequences. Others are not like that. Organizations and individuals are very careful; they observe the situation, they feel don’t know… There’s also a lot of confusion because of the authority leading Bangladesh today. Yet even Nobel Prize Laureates make mistakes.

We must work further and in coordination to deliver the information. It’s very difficult because it goes against the current and because your voice is a minority. Our voice at the moment is a minority voice; however, we will follow Mr. Kabir’s example and be uncompromised in defending his rights. We’ll collaborate with all organizations, approach each organization and each individual individually. I think this is important.

 

Dr. Rahyan Rashid:  We are reaching the end of our program. Do you have any message to Dr. Shahriar Kabir’s family?

 

Mrs. Mona Haghgou Strindberg: We are so sorry about this. We are so sorry, but please know that we’re doing all that we can, in our power, to save Shahriar from this situation and bring justice for this unimaginable situation that he’s finding himself in. We are also praying and hoping for his health.

 

Mrs. Natalia Sineaeva: I would like to say that we are very grateful to his family and colleagues for their resilience before this situation. It’s crucial to be resilient. We are with them and we’re doing everything possible to bring Shahriar Kabir to be with us very soon.

 

Dr. Rahyan Rashid: And to the current government, do you have anything to say?

 

Mrs. Natalia Sineaeva: I would like to say that it’s very important to think of such symbols of Bangladesh as Mr. Kabir. Mr. Kabir should be honored in Bangladesh. He’s an important for the future of Bangladesh.

I’d also like to say that, regarding minorities and indigenous rights, the government of Bangladesh should follow very carefully, protect minorities and follow the pillars of minority rights: protection of existence, protection and promotion of minorities and indigenous identities, non-discrimination, and the right of effective participation. I don’t know how many minorities and indigenous peoples are involved now or participate effectively in the rule of the state, but I know it’s important to protect them and the pillars of minority rights.

 

Mrs. Mona Haghgou Strindberg: Persecution is not the way, torture is not the way. As Natalia said, people like Mr. Kabir are lacking in the world; the few we have we must honor. He has such an important role in helping the country heal from their previous genocide and build a future democracy that people can really enjoy. Mr. Kabir’s causes benefit everyone, including those who are persecuting him! If they would realize that by hurting him they are hurting themselves, they would stop. I’m remembering the speech by Charlie Chaplin in the movie … His speech is deeply emotional; reminding all of us across the world, especially Mr. Yunus who must honor the prize he has received. As a role model for everyone else, someone we’re supposed to look up to, honor your prize and the responsibilities that come with it. Stop this before it’s too late, think of your legacy and what you will be remembered for. Save Mr. Kabir’s life before it’s too late, please.

We are hoping for a wake up call. Thank you.

 

Dr. Rahyan Rashid:  Let’s remember this is not about one man, it’s about what he represents. Shahriar Kabir has dedicated his life to fighting for a just, inclusive, and secular society. And for that he is paying an unacceptable price. The silencing of voices like his sets a dangerous precent. It chips away freedom of speech, which is the foundation of any democratic society. We cannot stand by while injustice prevails. Let me remind you that his helth is failing. The time is running out. We ask you what can you do today to make a difference. Please share this story, write to your representatives, write to civil society organizations. Join the call for his immediate release. Please spread the word. Let’s ensure his plight is not forgotten. Remember the name Shahriar Kabir.

 

 

 

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